Fodderstompf | PiL Interviews | Archive Pete Jones interview (original Fodderstompf interview)

Pete Jones interview (original Fodderstompf interview)

First published Fodderstompf, 2000 (first published original Fodderstompf website)
© 2000 Mondo Electra / Fodderstompf.com

Interview by M

M: What inspired you to do a solo album?

Fast forward a few years and we find that technology has moved on somewhat and the means to make and distribute music have become easier. I got my high spec PC, got my internet connection and found there was still a great deal of interest in PiL and its associate mutations. I thought people might be interested in my experiences so I learnt a bit of HTML and put my website together. At the same time I had bought some equipment that meant I could record to hard disc in my own home. This allowed me to capture the creative moments as and when they occurred instead of going down the tried and tested route of booking studio time, relying on engineers etc.That's the problem with booking studio time. having to work in that "Be creative now" environment with the clock ticking away losing money....All bollocks.

At the same time....In my personal life things were going a bit tits up. My marriage was failing due to my wife's mental illness and there was a lot of inner wrangling going on in my mind. Writing songs is a great release from all that stuff and to be able to sit and focus on recording pushes all that from your mind. "The Knife" is mostly about that part of my life and as you rightly mentioned, deeply personal.

So...I had the technology, there was interest and encouragement from the PiL interested parties (such as yourself) and my mind was fucked enough to come up with something I thought might be of interest for others to listen to. I could do that without worrying about the finances as it wasn't my sole income source and I didn't have to worry about anyone else trying to rip me off through dodgy deals etc.

The "Solo" aspect of the album was important also. I of course wanted "total control" and I wanted to play all the parts of the album as well as engineer and produce it. I brushed up on my PhotoShop skills and designed the cover, even the original photos used are self-portraits.

I suppose at the end of the day, producing the album has been a bit of an exorcism, burying the ghosts and proving something to myself. I am satisfied that has been achieved and I am proud of what I have produced. As I have said to you before, I care not one jot how many I sell, as it is, I am barely covering my costs on the whole thing. But I do care about the people that buy the album and I am thankful that those who do and that they appreciate my art. I now write and produce stuff for myself, I'm not trying to "make it" or get my ego massaged. Simple.

While we are on the subject of inspiration. Its a strange thing this "inspiration" and I know not from where it comes. Take Fat Man Thin World for example. I had the backing for that tune knocking around for some time on my PC and hadn't done anything with it. Then, one day as I was about to get in the bath, the first line, "You're no Einstein, Fat pig philistine" came into my head as a direct reference to Lydon. Why? I don't know, it just happened. So as I sat there scrubbing my bits, the rest of the words were written and later that day I recorded them. Divine influence? perhaps.

Where you surprised to find some interest in PiL, and it's various members, a band that has changed it's line up a million times and never really had mega success?

In some ways yes, but that has to be put into some kind of perspective here: Globally, there is a great deal of people who are into all things that are Lydon/Rotten, but as a percentage of the WWW population it is very small number. As you are no doubt aware, the PiL related websites do not generate enormous amounts of web traffic and I guess a high proportion of those are return visits. Like most of the innovative artists in the world, their following is usually of an "underground" nature, and that in itself is what makes them all the more interesting. If artists like Lydon cross over into the mass market, then their long lasting appeal usually goes out the window, at least for the more radical, free thinkers. I suppose the real interest will kick in when Lydon kicks out and dies, then every mother fucking leech will want to do a story and dig around in his dirt, licking the crumbs from his table.

Some might say (but not necessarily my view) that the large percentage of the educated world can see through the shite and see Lydon for what he really is; a talentless, arrogant and insecure little shit with a big mouth who surrounds himself with sycophants who are all too willing to massage his ego.

Speaking of Lydon as part inspiration for "Fat Man, Thin World", you also use some "samples" of him in another song "Shave of a Bitch" a tune I didn't like very much when you first had it up on your web site but seems to have changed and is much more palatable on the album. Did the final set of songs for the album go through allot of metamorphosis before you felt happy enough with them to lay them down permanently?

No not really. I don't believe in working something to death or polishing it until you rub all the shine off. Most of the stuff on Twisted was done in a "one take" environment. There are a lot of "mistakes" so to speak, and a lot of stuff was played live instead of editing parts into a sequencer. Sure, I had to use a sequencer to play back parts I already recorded, but I didn't quantise and move notes to make them perfectly in time or on the note. The cymbals on Blue Water for example were played over the track in one hit for a large part of the song, then repeated in the sequencer through the track. The guitar part in the opening track was done in one take.

Some of the tunes took time to complete because I would only add to them if I felt it was right, and I only record when the mood and creativity gets me (Sound like a fucking hippie now don't I?) So part finished tunes would sit around for ages in the computer festering until I felt like working on them.If the kids want to go to the park then that takes priority, during school holidays and weekends I won't work on Jack Shit

Someone called "Braindrain" wants to know "what the hell is a 'Shave of Bitch'????"

Shave of a bitch....Well, I had been playing around with vocal lines from Religion and I took the "of a bitch" part, copied it and reversed it. When the reversed part was stuck on the front of the original line it sounded like "Shave of a bitch" Purely by accident. I liked it so wrote a backing for it. The original version I had on the website sounded naff to me and in fact I lost the original drum parts following a computer crash, so I recorded a new part which fitted in with the vocal line. Of course, I do not admit to pinching other peoples works, so officially I would say that it is me doing the vocals in Lydon's style and not Lydon himself!!!!! Doesn't it sound remarkably like him?!!!!!!!!!!! For me personally, the line refers to scaping the vocals off a track, a comment on the widespread ripping off of other peoples works that you hear on a daily basis. Blah Blah Blah.

In the same vain of using some "Samples", The thing that strikes me most about this album is your use of vocal effects not just on one or two songs but on every song. I find it's what keeps me listening to the album over and over. The queer little effects stick in my head. What is the thought behind such a unique approach to presenting vocals?

It could be that my voice sounds shite dry!! But of course I wouldn't say that. I like playing with sounds whether instruments or vocals, and using panning echo, reverbs, cut up and pitch shifted vocals is what I like. I have put a lot of that into the album as well as a lot of more subtle touches.
The low level vocal snippets in Corruption are plentiful but you have to listen very carefully on a good system to hear some of them. There are all sorts of noises in there, the main vocal is pitch shifted up a touch to make it sound a bit "girlie" and I suppose I was intending to add a touch of mystery to the whole thing. While we on about vocals, the lyrics in the songs are referring to more than one subject at a time. FMTW sure, has references to people such Lydon, but there are also personal references in there to other things "Falling up the stairs, the thought you never shared..." refers to a painful night when my partner got blind drunk in front of the kids and tried to climb the stairs to bed, only to get as far as the first step before falling flat on her face. The lyrics are intermixed and in fact Twisted through the album and need a bit of deciphering to understand the meaning as they were written. I would like to think that others will put there own interpretation onto them. M: What inspired you to do a solo album?

Pete: Well.....I have been writing since my heady PiL days, my guitars always stayed next to my bed and would play most days. In the eighties I attempted to get my own stuff off the ground and put together some demo tapes of a few naff tunes. I had various meetings with record companies and stuff but nothing came of it. Being an ex PiL member wasn't such a big deal at that time. Then the thought struck me that what would I do once I got some sort of a deal? Go back on the road in the back of an old van? prostitute myself for others to pimp and ponce off my material? That idea suddenly didn't sound such a good deal so I basically retired for a while. I carried on playing and writing but found other ways to make a living to put food on the table, got married, had three kids and channeled my energy into other more rewarding pursuits.
Fast forward a few years and we find that technology has moved on somewhat and the means to make and distribute music have become easier. I got my high spec PC, got my internet connection and found there was still a great deal of interest in PiL and its associate mutations. I thought people might be interested in my experiences so I learnt a bit of HTML and put my website together. At the same time I had bought some equipment that meant I could record to hard disc in my own home. This allowed me to capture the creative moments as and when they occurred instead of going down the tried and tested route of booking studio time, relying on engineers etc.That's the problem with booking studio time. having to work in that "Be creative now" environment with the clock ticking away losing money....All bollocks.

Where you surprised to find some interest in PiL, and it's various members, a band that has changed it's line up a million times and never really had mega success?

Someone called "Braindrain" wants to know "what the hell is a 'Shave of Bitch'????"

Why not? From my time with PiL it was one of my favourite tunes because of the stark darkness of it all and the interesting time signature. When there was talk of PiL doing the soundtrack to Order of Death I imagined the backing for Blue Water as perhaps the main theme for the film. I was really pleased with how the track turned out when I covered it and it was one of the first things I recorded in my studio at home. Like "one of my babies" so to speak and listening to it has at times brought a tear to my eye (well, both of them actually as I do have two).

Neil asks: "Here's another question: what album changed the course of
his life (i.e. he would have become an accountant if he
hadn't listened to ________)."

Interesting...I remember listening to Woodstock live album notably the Jimi Hendrix set and my dad thought it was shite. I thought otherwise and felt the early urge to go do it myself. At a real early age, I recall playing old 78's and Lonnie Donnegan singles on an old dancette record player which sort of had me transfixed. I suppose, looking back, the real influence to get a band going was the First Roxy Music album (especially Eno) and early David Bowie. Those were the two albums my old school mates and I posed with the tennis rackets to in our bedrooms. I saw Bowie on the Alladin Sane tour and that gave further inspiration. Sound like a fucking old hippie again don't I?

Albatross asks: " Did you really like the bands you played in like public image and brian brain or were they just excuses to be in a band?"

Better than working 9 till 5 but mostly I passionately believed in what I was doing from my very first band onwards, that's the only way to make yourself persevere through all the shite. And of course when you are young it doesn't matter a fuck 'cos you can do what you like without the trapments of responsibility weighing you down. Brain Brain was a real hoot while it lasted and was an excuse to freeload round the world at someone else's expense. Deep down I thought it was pretty awful, especially Atkins' singing, but we got away with it through having a lot of bottle. PiL could have been great, but the personalities involved made it very hard to enjoy as such. It could and should have been fucking a great ride but it wasn't to be. That's why I left.

Were you disappointed by the final music chosen for "Order of death"? I know allot of fans are a bit disgruntled by the actual song "Order of death" not being used in the film?

Yes. I was disappointed that PiL didn't end up doing the music. There was a lot of talk about it when I joined the band and we were up for it but like a lot of things, it just never happened. I would like to have thought that PiL would have done a more interesting soundtrack. I thought the whole film was shit and I nearly pissed myself when I saw it. I have a lot of respect for Harvey Keitel and he came to see us play at the New York gig, one cool dude! I am not at all surprised that Lydon's' film career didn't take off after that.

Some one brought up recently, on the Fodderstompf messageboard, the fact that you were not given proper credit for your work during the Blue Water era, what exactly was the extent of your effort in the creation process during your time with PiL? Do you feel you have been overlooked in anyway?

By the time I hit New York a lot of CZ had been written. Immediately after stepping off the plane from London I went straight into the studio and laid down the bass track for Mad Max. (Full story on my website in Johnny Tales) I played bass on Love Song and co-wrote Young Brits (Solitaire). Atkins and I finished recording Miller High Life by ourselves with me adding 3 or 4 bass parts to the song. We re-recorded Lou Reed part 2 but that version isn't on CZ. We recorded some other stuff that I can't remember due to the drug induced haze, that was never used. That's about it really, Keith spent hours and hours in the studio mixing and re-mixing stuff by himself, I was only there to play bass. I don't really give a fuck how my contribution to that era has been perceived, people can draw whatever conclusions they like. Like a lot of people who have been involved in PiL or Lydon related activities I was considered a bit player, but those contributions were necessary for John to continue recording, playing live and putting stuff out. Anyone with an ounce of suss could see that. It would have been nice to have had the appropriate credit and payment for co-writing Solitaire but well.. that's life and a lesson learnt.

Annalisa asks: "What happened to your first album?"

Not a lot. I only released stuff to people I knew and who were generally interested so was on a very limited basis. All the master tapes were destroyed afterwards (Pre-digital days) and the album is no longer available. I did consider re-recording some tracks but in the end I couldn't be bothered.

Having been in the business and a consumer of rock material what what do you think it is that keeps you making music?

Either you have a strong creative energy or you don't. I always have had, and with it a strong desire to create artistically, whether it be music or other forms of art. The problem with the music industry is that there is a whole heap of shit that can stifle that creativity and if you play in a band you learn that very quickly. After leaving PiL I came to terms with not being hugely successful and found alternative ways to make a living. Once the financial constraints had been removed I could then concentrate solely on the creative process within. So in answer to the question, it is an inner desire to be creative, to satisfy my own wants. Once all the whoop de fuck of the business is stripped away that's all that's left. I love playing with sounds and words as a medium, as a sculptor would work with clay or stone, drawing from the "something" deep inside the mind. It is a very self-centered approach that doesn't sit too readily with most peoples perception of someone with a rock and roll background, but that's their issue, not mine.

What sort of stuff do you listen to these days?

Basically I don't. I haven't bought a CD in fucking years and I don't even own a stereo these days. More importantly though is, who and why do people care? The problem is that you use what other peoples taste in music is to make some assumptions or judgements about that person. If I told you I listen endlessly to Bon Jovi and Van Halen records you would pitch me into a certain stereotypical pigeon hole wouldn't you? Likewise, if it was Steps, Five and S Club seven you would place me elsewhere (Probably in an institution) It's this sort if shite that really makes me want to puke. I do spend time listening to stuff that I haven't heard before via the internet, instead of being drip fed my tastes off the back of some clever bastards' marketing strategy, and there is an awful lot of content out there, some of which is very very good,. Unfortunately, most people feed from a very small dish when in fact the menu is fucking huge. That in itself is a bit sad.

For the record though, I do listen to XFM radio. A London based station playing so called "New Music", and they do feature unsigned bands from time to time but I only use it as background noise at home or in the car. I wouldn't buy a CD on the strength of hearing one track on the radio. My old albums gather dust in the attic and will probably end up on the dump.

Your comments bring up an interesting point about music today. In the realm of the internet every guy in a garage with his guitar can now actually get other people(besides mum) to listen to his music or at least make it widely available for anyone who might be interested. This doesn't actually mean that any of it is good, just that you have access to it.

Very true. But the guy on the guitar can feel fucking great at having done it and can tell all his mates he has done it, and that just may help him feel a bit better about himself, and just may, stop him going out and buying a gun and blowing half his school away. Then again, in the US anything is possible right? Perhaps we should make all the kids join a band at school and make it part of the curriculum, beats the crap out of studying fucking algebra.

Do you think that MP3 and Personal publishing is where it's heading? Well obviously it's already gotten there to a degree, but many main stream musicians are still trying to keep it at bay for instance metallica and their suit against napster. Yet others completely embrace it in fact they release whole albums in MP3 exclusively through an internet media company, or like yourself sell a cd from a web site.

I'm fed up with hearing this Metallica/Napster argument. But its a good way to promote both causes aint it? And as you see the column inches on the subject, its all promotion.

I suppose its just another tool for people to use to get their stuff heard. It doesn't necessarily mean that we can all stay at home and tour from the comfort of our home studios with live webcasts, downloaded albums and stuff. But it does give an alternative, the challenge is who is going to beat the big boys and avoid someone else controlling it? It has an element of honesty about it, just like the good old days when punk hit town. You know, pressing up a few records and wrapping them up in paper bags or whatever and selling them on the streets. Doing stuff for fuck all just to get your stuff heard. It can only be healthy but I guess we will see it transform over the next few years and who knows how it will all end up. The good thing is that as bandwidth gets better for us all with modems, streaming will probably be a thing of the past and you will certainly be able to download a whole album or concert in seconds rather than minutes or hours as you do now. If you want to see what you can do with the new technology then just look at the porn industry first. They have always been the first to utilize the technology to satisfy the demand and its always been that way since the printed word came along. The internet is the same, and the porn barons will be the quickest to give us all more, and faster too.

Is it too much though? As you say people seem to be afraid to try anything that isn't spoon fed to them from a big record company and here they are thrust in a void filled with a cacophony of taylor made sounds to choose from while at the same time told its naughty and they shouldn't be doing it.

You have a choice. If you are happy with top forty records and you are 11 to 16 years old then I guess that's all you want. The more discerning listener with a bit of savvy will be able to go seek something a bit more stimulating. At the end of the day there has to be some money in it for guys in a band. You can't go on forever doing it for love, free drink and a guaranteed shag. As fun as that is, it wont support any long term commitment I guess.

We are all subject to the same marketing as everyone else and I buy the same soap powder that gets advertised on TV just like the rest of you, marketing and advertising works, it sells, and that costs money. Therefore, those with the largest advertising budgets and paying the big backhanders generally win out. The small fry can, and do, fight through it all but it is dam hard.
I have always said that if you gave me a few million and a nugget of talent I could make my own mother a successful rock star!

Let's talk cover art: you mentioned earlier that you taught yourself PhotoShop. Does this mean not only are we enjoying homemade musical ministrations but cover-art complete and utterly designed by yourself? No fancy ad or pr men hidden behind the curtain?

That's right! I designed the cover and label myself and did all the artwork. The original photos were self portraits and other stuff scanned in by me. Again, creativity, only in a different form. I enjoy the challenge and the cover was a new thing for me to have a go at. I am most definitely a one man band!

The skinless torso is a bit creepy but clever with the dictionary descriptions of the word "twisted".

Yeah I liked the look in the eye of the torso (Taken from and old medical book) It has that sort of "Who the fuck ripped my skin off?" look about it and there is a hint of irony in the eye, a counterpoint to the look in my eyes on the front cover....brilliant eh? You noticed the dictionary descriptions...they don't actually say Twisted but "Twister, Twisty, Twitch and Twit." I thought that was quite apt when I saw them listed like that in the dictionary and in itself says something about me.

Didn't it do your eyes in scanning your face like that?

Yeah its really weird, I laid on the scanner and when I got up my face fell off. Underneath was a hideous alien head. I now have to wear extensive make up so that the Feds don't get me. But I hear a spaceship is coming round this way in ten thousand years or so to rescue me so I feel kinda safe.

So this is what I am curious about, why a web site with Johnny tales? Is it just exorcising your demons or something else? I ask because I remember the first time I came across your site, I instantly got the idea you didn't like him much so I wondered why a site with so much about him? I understand, however (maybe I am answering my own question here), that PiL were a part of your life and the place we all have gotten to know you from in your musical career.

I just thought that some poor soul might be interested in an insiders view, that's all. A lot of people have said they like it, so I left them up on the site. I neither like nor dislike Lydon. I never got to know him well enough to find out. He hid behind the mask that was Rotten and only came out for short periods. I also thought that I should write some stuff down before the onset of Parkinson's disease so that my grandchildren have something to remember me by. Its something I do anyhow, I write down memories, from as far back as I can remember. I now have a list of 7.

Do you feel that you have finally exorcised some of the demons through this album and your personal web site?

Yes, some, but not all. I am working on a new release for next year that will be totally different from Twisted. I guess that I shall eventually reach a point when I will become bored with it all, pull the plug, and vanish.

You have said that there isn't going to be any live performances, from yourself, to support the album. Besides working on your tracks at home do you do any live playing with friends or professionally?

No. The last public performance of any kind was when I sang "Like a virgin" and "Should I stay or should I go" at the Kareoke night down the local boozer. There never seemed like any point in getting a band together and doing the rounds in the back of an old van again. Joining some old blues band wasn't an option either, just not interested thank you. I have found my medium now and I am happy with that.

Do you miss that sort of thing, playing with a regular band in front of a live audience?

I have played to an audience of one when I was with Brian Brain, have been spat at, bottled, fallen over drunk, had money and lit cigarettes thrown at me as well as been hit by pieces of metal. I have been hospitalized with glass in my eye and had to run gauntlets of thugs who wanted nothing more than to beat the crap out of me. Tried to get paid by baseball wielding thugs in seedy clubs, driven all night up endless motorways, stayed in cockroach infested motels, stayed on peoples floors, stayed up all night, nearly frozen to death getting lost in Minneapolis, nearly shot at in New York. Had all our stuff stolen, had guitars damaged beyond repair, been ripped off......Need I say more? The counterpoint to that was the first night I played with PiL at Roseland New York, and all the pain then seemed all worthwhile. As Johnny sang, the crowd roared and it was fucking great. The problem since then has been that I would be more likely to return to the pain rather than the glory of what was for me, playing live.

Tell us about JabberJab Art and Media UK what is it, what will it be, what's gonna be on that lonely page?

The idea was supposed to be a forum for supporting artists in the UK whatever the medium. My older brother is an artist and the intention was to feature his work as a start and put some of stuff up but.....I just haven't found the time as yet to get it off the ground. In fact, I shall be mothballing the idea for a while and taking the link out from my site. It seemed like good idea at the time!

Recently you went to see Damage Manual, the Wobble/Atkins collaboration, perform any thoughts, opinions, missives?

My expectations were high when I went to see them. Unfortunately the show didn't quite live up to them I'm afraid. They should and could have been fucking great but it didn't quite cut it as far as I was concerned. Perhaps they will kick it up a bit as the tour goes on. Why Wobble sits on a couch I do not know. It was pure arrogance. Martin says that he had some unfinished business with Wobble, but I think their business ended when Metal Box was released (perhaps I'm being a bit jealous here!) I always thought the Jones/Atkins partnership was a better rhythm section and it would be far more interesting if we got together again I'm sure. Though this is highly unlikely in the near future if at all.

You have survived John Lydon, you have survived intense emotional upheaval in your personal life, you've survived the music industry and are still willing to make music...what more do you want out of life?

Nothing......I have it all.

~end~

Why "Blue Water" ?